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Grenades > Meds


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#41 Caliber

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Posted 11 February 2008 - 18:23

Medics will always be the best sub-items to use in the game. Nades are completely useless with numerous reasons, as following...

1. Lag Issues
2. Not enough Damage can be done to a single person
3. Only limited and heavy

Whereas HP/AP meds, premiums or non-premiums is not only an extra life in DM's, CW, Beserker (very important), and TDM's.

If Nades VS Meds, meds will naturally win since nades are easily avoidable and not swappable (aka quick med/nade) making it very difficult to actually hit a target unless it's DMs.
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#42 AmanduhTheAwesomeFaced

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Posted 12 February 2008 - 01:47

That's not true... In most attack and defense games I usually kill a few people with well placed grenades or at least throw one and make them run towards me into my shotgun.

Even if I'm the only one left on my team, it becomes a bow game and grenades help a lot. True, premium hp/ap meds are an extra set of life but that's like saying "z0mg, b6 > cruz" etc. Since Cruz is a premium item, it's bound to be better.

If they were to make a premium grenade that either dealt extra damage or wasn't as heavy, grenades would be a lot better than premium grenades.

Usually, I have around 11 grenades and I rarely run out. Only if it's a long game I'll run out but just rarely.
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#43 Hesacon

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Posted 12 February 2008 - 02:19

11 grenades for 11 weight is not a bad trade off, that's 50 damage/weight.  Normal meds are 20hp/5 weight, 30hp/6 weight, or 40hp/7 weight.  Prem meds are 60hp/3 weight or 100hp/5 weight.  Potentially the grenades are better, but in shorter-sided games probably not.
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#44 Caliber

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Posted 12 February 2008 - 19:28

Game's that matters, or to me anyways.. CW, TDMS, and 1v1s... you would not use nades over meds. 18 man TDMs Defend/Attack and DM's would be the only situation I would use meds.. and even then I wouldn't.
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#45 Hesacon

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Posted 12 February 2008 - 22:46

I've never seen at 18 man anything on gunz :P
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#46 AmanduhTheAwesomeFaced

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Posted 12 February 2008 - 22:46

Maybe not in CW, not sure I rarely CW.

But in TDMs and 1v1s, nades are incredibly valuable. But, I guess it depends on the persons skill. I've used grenades for most games andso I for one know in an attack and defense games where to throw it. It's not quite as easy as just lobbing one towards people, instead you have to cover it with a wall run or a stumble.

I could find some replays about them.  

Heh, and the floor matters. I mean, if you look at the red base floor and throw a grenade there it's hard to see but in the tiled part it sticks out like a sore thumb.

But I'm going on a tanjent, back to my point...

If you're a pro at k style and can own everyone, then premium meds would be great since it's a way of practically getting full hp. But if you're experienced with grenades then you can get hits most of the time.
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#47 Caliber

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 03:17

experience players with nades can't match to a somewhat decent kstyeler, you wont be able to hit them if they fly 80% of the fight.

Edited by Caliber, 14 February 2008 - 03:17.

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#48 AmanduhTheAwesomeFaced

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 05:08

I expected a bigger answer than that. >.>

If the k styler had to fly for most of the fight then it would be harder for him to k style and his moves would be more predictable. And considering the player would be flying, how could he med?
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#49 Hesacon

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 05:10

Finally I managed to get a real debate going here!
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#50 Caliber

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 03:57

Ugh, I said "Decent" Kstyers, not average. What players do not know is that leading/aiming for a player with prediction don't always work. Even if you say you can predict there movements... you really can't. I make myself predictable but at the same time you won't ever hit me. In fact il throw meds down in the middle of the stage to heal myself and you wont hit me. It's basically predicting the predictions if you can understand any of that.  

In fact if you can conquer this step, you can almost consider your self a closer path to being top tier with other players. Because to be honest, Leading/Aiming/Speed in "IJJI" Gunz is not the main essential you really need which has been told. It's movement, predicting what you think you predicted and countering it.  Don't believe me? watch a transvestor video on you tube somewhere and you will what see I mean.

Edited by Caliber, 15 February 2008 - 04:01.

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#51 AmanduhTheAwesomeFaced

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 04:02

... So if the player is flying, there's one way he can go. To the wall.

How is that not predictable? Of course, it's impossible to ALWAYS predict where they're going to go but if it's, say in a mansion corridor, where can they go that won't be predicted?

Hmm, I can fly to the left wall...

Or I can fly to the right wall.

Oh decisions.

Edit: The argument was about meds anyway.

Edited by Lynx, 15 February 2008 - 04:03.

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#52 Caliber

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 04:07

And still is, you think nades is better. infact it's not. I'm trying to point out even if you can't hit a person with a spread attack like a shotgun, how do you expect a nade will hit with more time for a player to react?

I wish you could play me to see exactly what i mean, on ANY map. Just to the wall? I wall switch frequently while inflicting damage much as I can on the target making him/her hide behind a corner. If not I glide to my next position very quickly, without getting hit, to another wall.

I can and some other very decent players can actually aim/lead/speed while using all the essentials I just mentioned against other players in ANY positions. They always carry meds on them because like me, they to make mistakes in direction and thats an extra life. Nades Vs me just pretty much pointed out my target. "The guy who can't heal", will be dead before anyone else will and become completely useless. Thats why to get in any of the clans aka magicians sparta ancients arenis and solar requires you use meds in clan wars.

Edited by Caliber, 15 February 2008 - 04:12.

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#53 AmanduhTheAwesomeFaced

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 04:41

We're not arguing about clan wars and I said that premium meds are better than nades because it's a premium item. If they made premium grenades, they would be a lot better.

Normal meds are incredibly heavy and give, what, 40hp and 40ap at most?

Two grenades would more than get rid of the bonus that they give. Besides, grenades can do more than simply damage the target. They can confuse and force the person to leave cover and then a quick shotgun or revolver shot can damage you even more.

And that's my point, you wall switch... on a wall. It's easy to then see where you'll be. If I'm on the floor, then I have a lot more cover and the ability to move than someone who constantly has to wall switch.

Edited by Lynx, 15 February 2008 - 04:42.

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#54 Satisfaction

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 11:20

Personally, I think meds are a lot better. Because, I mean honestly how many times have you had someone almost dead and then they run away, prem med, and come back at you with full hp.

Meds can turn an average player into an above average player. Just by the fact that they gain an extra life with prem meds. I've lost many clan wars before I learned to use meds, because I did scroll, to players whos skill level was below mine, but they had that extra life to kill me with.

Grenades are a lot more situational than meds in any game type. In large open maps like Battle Arena grenades are very easily aviodable and are next to useless because people can just run from them in open space, whereas meds serve their purpose at any time on any map.

However, if you watch replays of HiaTa back when Flower used to dominate, he is normally using shotgun + revs and one set of each grenades and meds. He's probably one of the best, if not the best grenade users I've ever seen, and he makes them work in places most people would be dumbfounded by.
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#55 Hesacon

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 00:00

The thing with picking grenades over meds is that you're going to choose your own battlefield better.  You'd pick a terrain which would make the grenades work, you wouldn't be fighting out in the open of battle arena.  Just like if I were to use a rifle or machine gun, I'd try to find long open expanses to give me an advantage, I would pick a closed off area to use grenades on.  Don't fight them in the arena, fight them in the tunnels.

For example in town, if I were going rifle/shotgun/meds, I'd fight by the clock tower.  If I went shotgun/shotgun/grenades I'd go to the bunker.

Edited by Hesacon, 16 February 2008 - 00:09.

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#56 Face

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Posted 18 February 2008 - 16:07

in my point of view, in terms of a kstyler, while u're 'flying', it's hella harder to aim as you have extra loads of keys to press not including dat u'll have lead shot as well. anyways, wad amaduh said was right, when someone is wall climbing, it's easier to lead shot or rather predict he's movements. wad goes up must come down. it'll be only like 3~5 secs before he touches de ground again if he ran out of walls to climb. so flying isn't really a good idea to evade nades, just giving more openings. nades provides openings for clean shots and irritating to the enemy. it can acts as a 1sec flash bang as well. giving de user to change his location or battle tactics. and yeah hesacon is right, nades are a lot lighter compared to meds, and plus, an experienced nader user can 'hide' the nade. ;)
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#57 Mice

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 13:54

Cough..;; im not that 'best' nade thrower so :P im going with meds

however i thought the samething as the other guy/ guys i thought

nades go for 100 damege :P


// I can only hit ppl with gren when my teams fighting with em and I threw it in or when someone

is hanging on a wall :P it's easy to hit it
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#58 Feiral

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 14:08

I prefer meds easily.  Nades are good and all but they can be avoided so easily!  whereas meds are always useful, especially in 1 on 1 and when people say "Stupid MED NOO000B" it's rather amusing I must say.

#59 Face

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 18:43

noob medder ftw :X
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