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#1 Rupert

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 14:50

Member Relations

Hey folks. For the benefit of everyone, I just wanted to set out exactly where we stand on the question of problems with or between members. I know this might come as a strange concept to some people, but even though the Semi God (that's currently me) might be responsible for the GW2 guild in all respects, it's not really up to us as to who we feel like kicking from the guild.

If a member does something questionable/offensive
Say, for example, a new Adherent starts hacking in WvW or begging for gold or spamming up guild chat obnoxiously or even tells everyone to go eat a **** and die. Ordinarily, these would be one way tickets to getting kicked if your Semi is on. Sadly though, your Semi is not on for 24 hours a day. So, how best to deal with this? Well, first up, if anyone ranked Templar or higher is on, please take the issue to them. If it's not a particularly serious issue, they may wait and defer it to the Semi/Demi to deal with. If it is a particularly egregious breach, they may eject the individual in question. If anyone of that rank or higher is not on or they are choosing to defer it to when the Semi or Demi are on, the best thing you can do is document everything you can (whether through screenshots or otherwise) and send them to the Semi so they're both 1) aware of the situation and 2) have the appropriate evidence to be able to take it forward.

What if it's not that serious?
Obviously, a lot of the concerns folks may have about individuals aren't necessarily so clear-cut. This can range from someone having a bit of a negative/offensive attitude to a longer-term member doing something serious, but rather out of character for them. Generally, the best policy to follow is that if it's something that affects/concerns you, again, document everything and send it to the Semi for them to look into. They will usually evaluate what's happened, find out more information if required and then, if warranted, sit down with the member and decide on what will happen. Anyone complained about will always be allowed to put forward their side of the story and, if their actions are genuinely serious, will be given the chance to improve themselves. This means that 1) if this takes a while, you are not being ignored - it's just something where we have to go through the motions to ensure that whatever is or is not done is the correct course of action and 2) if problems occur subsequently, you should continue to document it and make the Semi aware of it. Please bear in mind that if I receive a complaint from you about someone with nothing documented and have to come back to you to query parts of it/ask for further details, it's not that I disbelieve you, it is simply that it is difficult to act in certain cases if all I've got to go on is one person's word.

Additionally, yes, if a member's actions concern you, you are allowed to query them on it, but if you do so, please do not deliberately exacerbate the situation. Calling someone you don't like a **** and then acting surprised when they bite your head off isn't a mature way of handling a situation.

I don't like member X
First and foremost, I'm going to make this pretty clear - we don't kick people just because we don't like them.  If someone is acting in a way that damages the guild or causes some sort of harm or distress to a member, yes, that's an issue. If someone's not as serious as you about dungeons or you don't agree with their life choices, sadly it's not really cause for us to act. We are not a small guild. As much as I'd love for everyone to get along, some folks are not going to see eye to eye. Where someone falls into this section, please bear in mind that you are not required to play with them. In cases of purely personal disputes between two members that have no bearing on their conduct with the wider guild, it's not our place to tell you that you have to get along. We can try and help you reconcile if that's something you're interested in, but our role in it can only go so far. Please however bear in mind that actions that take that dispute and disturb the wider guild, e.g. having a raging argument in guild chat, is something we will have to deal with.

Members ranked Worshipper or higher
Even less in the Semi's hands. When a member has gained their rank through the democratic will of the guild, we take the prospect of revoking that seriously. This means that the Semi will typically have to confer with other gods regarding the matter and any firm decision can take longer. In such cases, please be patient as we will deal with it as quickly as we can but we can only work so fast.

Document everything
I just want to hammer this point home. If someone is acting out in a negative fashion, please, please, please actually document it. I know it's not always easy - if something happens over TS3 or Mumble, it's not like you normally sit around recording everything or can screenshot words. Honestly though, I can't express how much easier it is to examine and tackle a problem if I am certain of what's been said and has happened. Thus, where it's not practical to record/screenshot/etc., it would at least be extremely helpful to have notes of the key details.

#2 Kaye

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 16:54

One question for example if Ryan or Bek are online and the Demi/semi isn't online are we allowed to inform that of what has/had been happening?
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#3 Rupert

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 16:56

You can inform them, but unless it's serious, it's not their responsibility to deal with it.

#4 Phidaissi

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 19:02

I think it's worth adding that there are some forms of conduct that can be considered very strongly or seriously that some people don't always consider to be all that serious themselves.

Namely, this would apply to any conduct that is unfriendly, discriminatory, or offensive on the basis of someone's intrinsic attributes:
  • Slurs or offensive views based race, ethnicity, skin colour, etc (racism)
  • Slurs or offensive views based on sex or gender (sexism, misogyny, transphobia, etc)
  • Slurs or offensive views based on sexuality (homophobia, biphobia, etc)
  • Slurs or offensive views based on cultural differences, nationality, religion, etc (islamophobia, etc)
  • Slurs or offensive views based on disability (ableism)
  • I'm sure there are other things that deserve to be in this list.

In many cases the individuals doing these things will not see them as serious, and often observers do not either unless they are a member of the group being insulted.

Because we have such a varied guild membership this behaviour should always be considered serious, and I would ask any ranking members present to immediately call out such behaviour and warn the offender that repeat offences are unlikely to be tolerated.

If you see conduct like that, please consider it as serious, even if you are not the target.
It can be the difference between others finding our guild to be a safe fun place to be, or feeling maligned and insulted and unable to enjoy their time in the guild.
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#5 Delusional

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 21:10

While Mink, myself and Ryan have been on a lot what ends up happening when you tell us is more of a documentation process. We will give you suggestions, as well as tell that person their actions are not becoming of the guild and warn them that it could result in them being removed but that is all we can do as high gods because it is Jasper's realm. We can make suggestions and recommendations to Jasper as he gets on, but we have a process that must be followed.

This process is not just to protect ourselves but to protect our members. It keeps the "I don't like x so lets kick!" from happening; as well as other things.

As Jasper said. Document it, aka screen shot it. Save chat logs.

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Lucifer: whoa now

Icy: Oh are we jealous?

Lucifer: yes I am totally


#6 DirtyBirdy

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 12:01

I am more than willing to help mediate any problems between members that crop up too, keep that in mind

#7 Delusional

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 20:48

I didnt mean to forget you! i promise! <3

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Icy: I'll get with him

Lucifer: whoa now

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Lucifer: yes I am totally


#8 Kythonn

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 00:33

One thing I'd like to request, is that during situations like this, the gods and other in-game leaders should try to make guild chat a little cleaner, if possible.  I understand this may be personal opinion, but we've had a few times where guild chat is used to suggest to everyone online that something bad happened, but no details are provided.  If something needs to be said over guild chat, whatever needs to be said should be clear.

For example, "Member X is going to be under review by the Gods for statements made earlier today."

If we don't want anything said, that's fine too, keep everything to PMs or group chat with only the appropriate people in the group.

It just feels like we've had a few times where I'll see something like "Hey <Insert Godly Type Here>, I really need to talk to you about some stuff that happened earlier today."  Then we get a whole bunch of speculation going on, other people who were on earlier that day will chime in, etc, etc.

So, I guess I'm rambling a whole bunch to say...if it needs to be private, it should stay private.  If someone feels the need to speak about something over guild chat, it should be clear enough so that the everyone online understands who is involved, and that the gods are looking into it, and that it isn't a topic open for discussion.

#9 displacedTitan

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 00:59

Just reading this is making me speculate on why the topic was created...

Kythonn is totally right though, multiple times someone will say something in guild and it kicks off a whirlwind of wild speculation which does no good for anyone.

#10 Rupert

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 08:06

The topic was created because I've had to outline bits and pieces on this in many previous cases and I still get asked questions to the effect of where we stand on this kind of thing. :P It's just much easier to have this posted for future reference.

#11 Delusional

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 08:12

Most of the time I say I need to talk to someone, it has nothing to do with the guild. :P :ph34r:

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Lucifer: whoa now

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Lucifer: yes I am totally


#12 kfcoco

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 08:53

Kyth brings up a really good point, I feel it has happened on more than one occasion and I'm sure I could be guilty of it. If members and gods are going to dance around a subject that is apparently serious in guild chat then things need to be explained or kept out all together, all it does is alienate people who are not involved, for no good reason. Jasp did a good job with doing that write-up on the shoemoney situation so it was easy to direct people to that.

#13 Phidaissi

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 00:36

I agree that complaints should be kept out of guild chat unless it's an event happening then and there.

If it's not actually happening as you discuss it, keep it out of guild chat, unless it's a god reporting to the guild that something is being investigated, and they felt it needed to be announced because of speculation by others. "Yes we are looking into [matter x], we'll post up something substantial when a decision is reached."
Phireya: omg, why does my guild hate me? T.T
Ekosyde: you kicked my 3 best friends, i did say i needed someone new to hate :o

#14 Mr Fen

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 01:32

If I marry a semi god (*cough* rupert *cough*) does that mean I get to be semi god?

By relation?

Or would I be a semi-god-in-law?
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#15 Rupert

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 01:34

I'm never going to be that drunk, Robbie.

#16 Mr Fen

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 01:38

Wut Wut. In the butt.
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#17 RyleeH3976

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Posted 17 August 2016 - 11:30

Hi, I'm Rylee. My husband got me into GW2 and GW1 actually. We've been married going on 2 years in December. So far loving the story lines. Still need to finish Zhaitan, but we did defeat Mordremoth. Thanks for letting us into the guild.

#18 Hesacon

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Posted 17 August 2016 - 12:47

Lol, you can't kill Mordremoth for he is the one true elder dragon who will set the Sylvari free.  Slay that imposter Zhaitan.
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]SoV[ Phidaissi: **** SoJ, always trying to destroy us in some distant future

#19 FallsOffMountains

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 00:52

Hi y'all. Is this where we go to keep our kneecaps intact?

#20 TheCasIsReal

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 02:20

What did that scrub Hesa told you guys? Did he go all macho and threat ya guys?
Snarky Moron who doesn't give a crap..

#21 FallsOffMountains

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 06:10

My word no, but there were rumors of preserving all sorts of cartilage with style and, you know, panache.

#22 TheCasIsReal

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 07:27

If thats the case then you have not seen the worst of him.
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#23 Hesacon

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 02:32

*whistles*
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]SoV[ Phidaissi: **** SoJ, always trying to destroy us in some distant future

#24 ScaashKelzt

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 05:10

Looks Like I can finally post. well you can delete this I am still finding out where exactly to post this but hey I am here and thanks for having me

#25 FallsOffMountains

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 01:14

hey, it's Scaash! *waves happily and heathenishly*




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